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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoPlainText><a name="_MailEndCompose">Thanks Dieter, and hi, all.<o:p></o:p></a></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Indeed, I am involved in TC37 SC2, and actually leading the task force in WG1 to develop <a href="https://www.iso.org/standard/71300.html">ISO/AWI 21636</a> (a <span style='font-size:10.0pt'>technical document rather than a standard, as it is not yet implemented anywhere, although a CMDI profile has been drafted</span>).<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>This is to be a framework for describing inner-language variation, in particular identifying the dimensions of linguistic variation and recognizing them as in principle independent. That means, each instance of language use and each element in a language resource are a point in a multi-dimensional space. The dimensions we are proposing are: <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>1)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>space (dialects etc.), <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>2)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>time (periods, epochs, etc.), <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>3)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>medium (e.g., oral/multimodal, written, …), <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>4)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>social space (sociolects, jargons, …), <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>5)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>[formality of] situation (registers), <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>6)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]>person (individual varieties), <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>7)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>proficiency (learners interlanguage stages)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText style='margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span style='mso-list:Ignore'>8)<span style='font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"'> </span></span><![endif]><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>performance peculiarities (for stutter, lisping etc.)</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>The new technical document will only cover the dimensions, NOT the values for each language in each dimension, so it does NOT attempt to cover any specific dialects of any language.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoPlainText><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>For that, Glottolog would be a point to start, although its coverage of language-internal variation is generally speaking (and admittedly: </span><a href="http://glottolog.org/glottolog/glottologinformation#dialects"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>“</span>[…] we spent little effort on making dialect classifications consistent and on providing references for dialects.<span style='font-size:10.0pt'>”</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>) rather weak. Multitree is sometimes better (some resource represented in Multitree, that is), but lacks a well-established system for persistent identifiers and good justifications for dialect/language distinctions, among other things.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Of course, in an ideal world there would be a comprehensive database where also dialects and varieties in other dimensions could be easily registered and get a persistent code, and CLARIN, for one, would be an institution that would have enough standing and recognition to host and promote such a database, as would possibly the LinguistList or a small number of other networks or institutions, but at this point I do not see any institution, including CLARIN and its members and centres, willing to commit to set up and maintain such a system which needs quite some work – technical support as well as a revision process backed by a competent panel.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>For languages (not varieties such as dialects etc.), I think a combination of ISO and Glottolog is the best what we can recommend at this time.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Given the well strengthened role of SIL and the US-stakeholders in ISO, I fear it will be hard to get any official recognition for Glottolog within the ISO framework, but if anyone has a good suggestion about how to go about it, I would be delighted to support this.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>These are my comments on this…<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Sebastian <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>-- <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Sebastian Drude, Director<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>The Vigdís International Centre for Multilingualism and Intercultural Understanding <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>The University of Iceland – Brynjolfsgata 1 – 107 Reykjavík – Iceland<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Email sdrude@hi.is – Phone +354 695.6784<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Dieter Van Uytvanck [mailto:dieter@clarin.eu] <br>Sent: Wednesday, 24 May, 2017 14:08<br>To: Piotr Bański <banski@ids-mannheim.de>; standards@lists.clarin.eu; Beeken, Jeannine C T <jeannine.beeken@essex.ac.uk>; Sebastian Drude <sdrude@hi.is><br>Subject: Re: [Standards] recommendation on glottolog codes?</p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>[I believe this thread was stalled - sending this again, now with Sebastian's work email added]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>(trying to answer 2 mails at the same time, as 2 external participants are added)<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>On 05/05/2017 10:42, Piotr Bański wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Now, turning to the matter at hand directly. With both the name of <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Martin Haspelmath and institutions such as SIL International and MPI <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Jena in the background, and given the scale of the work behind <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Glottolog, I personally share Dieter's sentiment, although as a <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> Committee, I guess we should better use a documented process for that, <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> and in the best of worlds, I would love to see that process pushed <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> onto ISO, and us giving a stamp of approval to a proposal that would <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> already be part of an ISO track (even if it were in the early stages <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> of the ISO process, with all the question marks entailed by that). <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> With my ISO hat on, I just can't imagine that no ISO activity would be <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> taking place in this regard, unless TC37 SC2 is in deep slumber.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> @Committee: Do we have anyone here with a direct channel to TC37 SC2 <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> open, please?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>[on ISO/AWI 21636 = <a href="https://www.iso.org/standard/71300.html"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.iso.org/standard/71300.html</span></a>]<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I believe Sebastian (in CC) knows more about this.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> @Dieter: would you be willing to share the use case that prompted the <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>> question? Or was it just general musing, given the existence of Glottolog?<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Jeannine Beeken (CESSDA) asked what the status was of the "old" CLARIN recommendations on language codes: using ISO-639-3 and ISO-639-1.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>I answered that these recommendations still hold, but that in certain cases there might be no suitable ISO-639-3 code. In such cases glottolog might be an alternative I suggested, with the promise to check with our standards committee.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Now ISO/AWI 21636 might also be an alternative, but that depends on the status - I'm sure Sebastian can comment.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>best regards,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>--<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Dieter Van Uytvanck<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText>Technical Director CLARIN ERIC<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoPlainText><a href="http://www.clarin.eu"><span style='color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>www.clarin.eu</span></a> | tel. +31-(0)850091363 | skype: dietervu.mpi<o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>